[BarbJacobs]

Pardon me while I try to problem solve out loud here. And feel free to add your two cents if you want!

I'm back at that place where I was with Talismen sort of. I have a nice core of readers, while not a huge number, it's nice.

I want more readers, I want to create cash flow with this project, but there are a number of problems and necessities to solove to make that happen.

#1 more popularity.
This is one that I have tried really hard to figure out. What makes a popular webcomic. Obviously, webcomics that update more are going to get more readers, have a bigger archive, etc. But there are some webcomics out there that only update once a week and have huge readership. And a couple that I know of that sometimes update once a month and have huge fan bases.

Maybe Xylia is not good enough to MAKE money. This is what scares me the most. If I did put all this time and have it end up like Talismen. And I feel like it's headed that way. Folks like it, but wont buy it. Folks like it, but it wins no awards. It's just there. Eating my time and my soul like a tapeworm muse.

#2 Extras
I miss being able to do extras. I know how important they are. But I truly honestly do not have the time. I barely finish the page each week.

The style that I am working in is majorly time consuming. I'm starting to regret that I didnt do a stick figure comic, or something really simple or black and white. Each panel I create has many layers - sometimes dozens- of lighting effects and details.

I thought about switching over to this style:



I could work much faster that way.

Not sure what to do, Im in a Catch 22. I cant make money with this without a lot of readers, but I cant have a lot of readers unless I dedicate massive amounts of time to it. Or change the style.

Or I could let Ollie draw the comic.



My whole life, I've wanted to make a living at this so bad, but to make it happen, I'm working every waking hour of my life. If I'm not doing chores or running errands or working my job or doing freelance, I'm working on Xylia- and I have no social or down time to speak of. I physically can't keep this up.

The worst part, is that as hard as I seem to be working, finincially I have nothing to show for it. That's the kicker. It makes me feel pretty stupid.


~Dumb Artist

[KEZ]

WCCA starts up again tomorrow! Hey guys, let's see if we can't get Barb nominated for a bunch of these categories, eh?

http://ccawards.com/

I've been talking with some other coders about optimizing a website, especially for search engines and ads. Since you're on Keenspot now, you can add A LOT of stuff. I shall send you an email later today
_________________
"Find what you're following and chase it down."

[Liria]

Unfortunately, I only read them. I'm neither artist nor writer on a webcomic, so I think that leaves me out of the nominating/voting in the WCCAs and other in-the-industry-type contests. I also don't have the experience within the industry to help you through the problems you're facing, but I have some comments. So, please take my comments for what they're worth - points of consideration. Sorry this is so lengthy.

1. Yes, it IS good enough.
I definitely think the product is good enough to warrant continuation, and Talismen IS (was?) good enough to accomplish this also, but that the process to achieving what you're after ("success") is a long one, not a short one. I think anyone who's in the same industry would say the same. It sounds like you're looking for fast success story, and I'm not sure the genre works that way. I think you gave up on Talismen being good enough - not because it was stagnating in OUR minds, but because it was in yours.

2. Don't stop.
My biggest fear is that you'll stop writing this comic, as you did with Talismen. That possibility is disheartening to me because I like this story as much as I liked Talismen. I think that each time an artist/writer discontinues a story in the middle, that artist/writer is likely to lose the faith of a few more readers each time (exponentially with each occurrance). This will also increase with the number and length of hiatus taken.

Would I be one of those readers? Not likely. I like your artwork and your stories too much. However, it probably does need to be pointed out that if you want to make it, you will have to find some way to stick it out and finish the story, because that will show your readers that you're dedicated to it, and to them.

3. Who is this really for?
It would be inaccurate and inappropriate to tell you that you're doing this (or any) story only for yourself, because in the end, if you want "success", you can't be doing it only for yourself - you have to be doing it for your readers, and they have to believe that's the case. In all honesty, most readers are selfish - they feel entitled to it, and they want it now. Therefore, if you don't give it to them in a 'reasonable' fashion, it won't survive.

4. Be consistent.
I put 'reasonable' in quotes, because what is 'reasonable' changes from comic to comic. This can include but isn't limited to: delivering quality (as perceived by the reader, not the artist), delivering it regularly and on time, and delivering what was promised (in terms of storyline).


Suggestions:

1. Don't leave it unfinished. (Don't give up!)
This is your main objective. It can be a confidence builder for yourself as well as for your readers. They'll be more likely to follow you to the next project, which may be a continuation of this story, or something completely different.

2. Write shorter storylines, at least initially.
Perhaps the trade-off is that you need to think yourself into shorter initial storylines, so that you don't feel as overwhelmed with the whole product and how you're going to finish it. This way, if you get tired of Xylia, or decide you need a break, you can still finish this part of the story without leaving your readers hanging. It may not be everything you intended it to be at conception, but as long as it appears finished to the readers, then you've achieved the main objective.

3. Use the faster style of art.
If a particular style of art is easier/faster for you to use to achieve the ends, then use it. As the artist, you're ALWAYS much harder on your art than we (the readers) are. YOUR ART ON A BAD DAY IS BETTER THAN A LOT OF ARTIST'S WORK ON A GOOD DAY. Using the faster style of art will help you achieve a finished product, which is the main objective. Once you have the big fan-base, then you can use the more time-consuming style of art.

I'm certainly not going to complain about the style of art you use - it's still exceptionally good. I would rather you use a less time-consuming method if that will help you find more time to keep going.

4. Build up an initial offering.
If and when you do start up a new story, build up at least 10-20 initial pages to put online as soon as you start, so that there's enough beginning to the story to really get people hooked. And have some strips saved up as a reserve, to help you stick to the timeline you decide on.

5. Be consistent.
Once a week is fine for an update schedule, as long as you can stick to it. Once you have a big fan-base and do start making money at this, then you can look at possibly changing to twice or thrice a week, or whatever.



Those of us hard-core fans of yours don't want you to kill yourself trying to do this because WE like it. We WANT to see you succeed. Deep down, it's as selfish of us as it is magnanimous, because we like the product, too. Those of us who can support you in this, do. I've bought calendars (I want to buy a 2008 calendar, FYI!), I've donated money to the cause, I help you keep the forums running so that you don't have to worry about it, I tell people about your comics in other forums, etc.

You might consider putting out some basic merchandise. I think what a lot of the artists did is limited initial runs of t-shirts. Sell them on the site, ship them yourself, and once they're gone, they're gone. See how well they do, and if you need another run, do another run. You've got to make it available before anyone can buy it.

I'm sorry, I can't find more hours in a day for you. I get the impression that a lot of artists start out in their spare time in High School and university, which is why they had the time to get their comic started and get a fanbase going. It's probably a hindrance to you to be starting after having a family and job to deal with, but I believe in your art.

It IS good enough.



I hope there is something worthwhile in that for you, Barb. I know that I said a few things that are likely to overwhelm you. I have one more idea to share, though. I've started reading the manga Fruits Basket recently, and one of the analogies in there fits this relatively well:

Imagine that you have mountains and mountains of laundry to do piled at your feet, so much that you can't move. It'll take you years to get it all washed. Thinking about the job in those terms will seem daunting and depressing. Instead, think of it in smaller portions. First, you need to be able to move around, so you need to do the laundry sitting at your feet. Soon, you'll be able to move around, and you can start on some a bit further away.

Focus on what you can do today, and not what all is still ahead of you, and eventually it will all be done.

Your success will come the same way.

[BarbJacobs]

Thank you Kez for the WCCA thing! I didnt even realize it was time for that already! THanks Liria for all of the great ideas and encouragement.

As far as starting a new story- I would never do that. XYlia is it. Talismen would have been it, but for other issues that have nothing to do with me 'being tired of it' or 'giving up on it' as many people have accused me of. I would still be working on it now but for those other things. I will leave it at that.

yes, it would be nice to be younger. To not have the responsibilities that I have. But at least Im giving it a shot.

I am a bit concerned about switching styles at this point though
I was considering doing the other style when I do flashback sequences. But that will be a while coming.

A lot of your points were made to me by Canterrain, who also reads webcomics and is familar with the business- which frankly Iam not. I try to be, but its not something Im very good at. Im an artist in the true sense of the word- bad with money, poor organizational skills, hypersensitive and dreamy. The amount of energy it takes to do the multitasking that I do might seem simple to another person, but it really keeps me pretty freaked out most of the time.

i plan to keep moving with Xylia. I'm glad you like it Liria, and thank you again for all of your help on this project and Talismen. Thank you for cleaning the spambots out of here, and for your donations. Thank you Kez for everything you have done for me and these projects. I really would be lost with out folks like you!

I keep moving onward. ^_^

~B

[Nipponb]

Barb I know it is easy to get down about money, especially when you have kids. As to the question of weather or not it is worth it…I have to say your work is great. It is really easy to get down about trying to do what you really want to do in life and then doing what you have to. The question you need to ask yourself is; what are you getting from doing the comic? I know the idea is to make money doing something that you love. Is there something else you get from it though? Does it give you a sense of pride or just a creative release?

As to things you can do here are just a couple of ideas.
Do you go to conventions or anything? Do you go to AnimeIowa at least?
The merchandising idea isn’t a bad one. Money is the problem with these…
As to the getting more people thing, I have to say that posting more would do that. I am not saying post a new page all the time, but if you put something up for people to see and keep at it, they will come. If you look at sites like shadowgirls, they post something new Monday through Friday. If it isn’t always a new page, they just post something that has to do with their world or story. You could post some of your warm up drawings or whatever. The break might have hurt you a bit, but you can only do what you can.
As to being published, I can very much see it being published it is just going to take some time.

I hope you don’t lose hope with your book. If you wouldn’t mind an email, I might be able to offer you some help as well.

[Sciuridae]

The few pages of the comic that are available, are extraordinary.

You definitely have the storytelling and visual talent needed to make money with this...

...but there are a few snags.

First, I have no clue what e-mail address to donate to on Paypal. The 'Donate' button just links to the login screen.

Second... internet comic readers are fickle and have short memories. I check Xylia daily, because I know I would forget to check it weekly.

Your art is fantastic, but very time-consuming. I agree with those who've posted above that it's probably in your interest to update more frequently, and use a faster art style.

What's kept ME glued to your pages, at least, has been the incredible amount of life and expression you put into your faces. This would come across even in the suggested Sepia - heck, even in sketch form, most likely.

So far, you've been laying out the pages as if for a graphic novel. Would it be possible to break those pages down into smaller bits? Instead of a seven-panel page, could you arrange things into two horizontal rows and get two days out of it?

In terms of keeping an audience, there's a huge difference between posting twice a week and posting once a week... even if it's exactly the same amount of story/art that the audience is getting.

You could save full colour/full pages for special occasions. Holidays, points that must be emphasized, donation goals met, etc.

You deserve a huge audience, and to make money, you need one. A private forum is lovely, but have you considered also having a Livejournal group for the comic? That's part of what's kept web comics such as Friendly Hostility and Head Trip (neither of which is as polished as Xylia) afloat. Having an LJ discussion group makes it a lot easier for fans to share the comic with their friends, and for people to bump into it accidentally.

It also breeds rabid fandoms, which is a good thing when you're trying to make a living. I see Xylia as a story that could easily breed fans who spend their evenings discussing the tiniest plot twist.

You might also consider adopting Kevin and Kell's 'adopt-a-strip' idea. Readers can pay a fee to sponsor a day's strip, and have a reasonable message of their choice printed below it. This brings in the birthday/anniversary crowd. Obviously, it works best if you update more often than once a week.

K&K also has memberships - for a yearly or monthly fee, the members get a few perks (such as the strip e-mailed to their accounts), and some minor merchandise (such as buttons with the characters on them). Higher (more expensive) membership levels get an invitation to a yearly social at one of the cons, and original art used in the strip. That might be a way to go. It also helps in community-building, which again, builds more fans.

Just a few comments from someone who really likes your comic. And is male, just in case you were wondering if your appeal was gender-specific.

[KEZ]

[Strange Ian]

Are you considering using the sepia style for some part of the story?
Let me just say: Yay for that! I love that style! Claude looks particularly handsome like that...

[Liria]

[BarbJacobs]

Wow- thank you everyone for the nice and most helpful comments.
Very good ideas, all of them, and I will be thinking about what I should do. I've already had a complaint about the $400 extra page thing, so that may not be the way to go right now.

EDIT-

That was too long and a bummer! Sorry-

Thanks you all! I will write more later!

~B

[Hagar]

Ian said:

[KEZ]

This may sound odd, but somehow I've seen this work on other comics. Rather than saying $$$=page, to simply phrase it $1600 in donations means next month I update 2x week (or "twice as much") has results with far less people moaning. You could even do some sort of scale:

$1000 this month means 2x updates next month
$2000 means 3 days a week
$4000 means 4 days a week
etc

Counting a price per page may make people iffy. Psychology of marketing or some such BS, since they're both the same thing. Like pricing something at 199.99 instead of 200. Pysch.

-I- am a bio major though. Any business majors/business people here?
_________________
"Find what you're following and chase it down."

[canterrain]

Kez is right, actually.

And this is why you will see things bundled together and labeled as "Buy one get one free" instead of "half off." "free" sounds more appealing, so more people are likely to reach out and buy the item.

In the same manner, the wording kez suggests may be more effective.

Something akin to, "400 dollars means a double update the very next week." And so forth.

(Hi all, sorry I've been so silent! I'm still here!)
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The meaning to life is *censored!*
Last edited by God at the beginning of time, 0 12:00 AM; edited 1 times in total

http://canterrain.deviantart.com/

[Hagar]

Wohoo! CT is back! Welcome. Holidays, ha?

I think this says it all:
http://redstring.strawberrycomics.com/index.html

& it really works for her. I agree with Kez & whats his name ... oh right- Canterrain!
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"Every word is like an unnecessary stain on silence and nothingness."
Samuel Becket
"I don't have a drinking problem, except when I can't get a drink".
Tom Waits

[Krozam]

Hmm... Growing a sizeable fan-base takes time. Talismen helps a little (although it also scares off some people who are afraid that this'll also be left unfinished), but Xylia is still fairly new. My advice is to keep going at a steady pace, get the story moving and be patient.

I'd donate myself, but since for some reason my card doesn't work online, I can't use PayPal...
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"You lopped his head off? Struck through his heart? Don't think of him as one of those vampires. He won't die from just that." - Sir Integral Fairbrook Wingates Hellsing